rounds. will you stop violence? no. but you may cut down the body count. facebook./carolcnn or tweet me. i am carol costello. thank you for joining me today and thanks for answering my "talk back" question. cnn "newsroom" continues right now. thank you so much. happy new year to you, my friend. nice to see your shining face. hello, everyone. i'm ashleigh banfield. one, a vietnam war hero and two-term gop senator and the other, a veteran of the spy war who is found a niche in west wing politics. two hours from now, chuck hagel seen here on the left and john brennan seen there at the podium on the right, they're going to stand with president obama at the white house to accept his nomination for defense secretary and cia director respectively. neither choice is a shock and

neither is likely to have an easy go at the senate confirmation process because you know that's coming up. joining me now with the sin sights on this and the expert e expertise, gloria borger and chief national correspondent john king. in the interest of the new year's resolution to be positive, let's start with the pros, gloria borger. let's go over the list with chuck hagel as the starting point. he's a war hero. and he has two purple hearts from vietnam serving alongside of his brother. each of them saving each other's life which is a story unto itself. and he went on to represent a native nebraska in the u.s. senate and now he co-chairs the president's intelligence advisory board. that sounds like a pretty good cv, they say. what's not to like? >> well, if you're in the white house, you say that's the reason his confirmation should be smooth sailing. but, you know, he was a two-term senator and when you're a two-term senator you have a record and you have a history. and chuck hagel's history at

least according to some republicans and some democrats is not what they would call pro-israel enough. and there are some questionable comments made a while back about the so-called jewish lobby as he called it. he has to answer questions about that, about some votes on sanctions against iran soy think that's going to be question number one out there. there are some in the lesbian and gay community who question the comments he made about an ambassador who was gay and questioned his credentials as a result of that a while back. hagel took back the comments but also clearly something to be raised but i would have to say that in the end the people i talked to on both sides of the ail say it's a fight. the question i'm looking at is, will john mccain in the end vote

"aye for his old friend and will democrats bail because of his questions about support for israel? >> well, and also that he's a republican. john, that brings me to you. it is not the first time we had cross-party secretaries. in fact, it happens all the time especially in defense, too. but why in particular do you think the president wants this particular man as his sec def? this particular republican. >> comfort zone. less worried about the politics and want someone with whom you're personally comfortable with. you mentioned it's not terribly unusual. become had a republican at the defense department. barack obama kept bob gates, president bush's defense secretary for continuity there because of iraq and afghanistan. now he's in the second term. he's less worried about the politics. he's prepared to have a fight, a fight not only with republicans but with some democrats. a bit of a controversy. we thought on the susan rice

nomination for secretary of state. he pulled the name back. the president signaling i want my team. i want my guys and willing to take bruises along the way and he thinks he will get them in the end. >> ashleigh, if you down size the pentagon politically, and that's what the president is going to do, it's not a bad idea the republicans think to have the republican at the helm because they're called soft on defense, et cetera, et cetera. when you're down sizing, have a republican lead the way. >> it makes for easier politics in some respects. let's switch to mr. brennan. this is another interesting choice and a lot of people have a lot of good things to say about john brenna. however, gler yeah, the n nomination process is problematic. the cv sounds terrific. when's the problem? >> i actually think that brennan will have a much easier time

than chuck hagel. i think there are questions about how he felt about enhanced interrogation techniques as we call them, otherwise known as torture, during the bush administration. >> he didn't particularly dislike them, right? >> well no. he has come out and said he opposed them but there's also a question of using drones too much. there are a lot of democrats who believe that we've -- we're using drones too much so these questions are going to be raised -- >> clarify that for me. i was under the question he supported the bush policy. >> he has and i was talking to somebody about that. he woet wrote a letter to obama and said it's immaterial to the opponents of iraq and coercive interrogation tactics so he has said that. so there are going to be lots of issues about brennan. he was for the raid to go in and

get osama bin laden. people believe he's acquitted himself in his job at the white house and again he's very close to this president. i do not believe there will be a tough time for brennan. i don't know. john, what do you think? >> john, add to that the drone issue. there are a lot of people who have said that he was a big part of shaping the policy on shaping the unmanned aircraft and some people called them a tool for extra judicial killings. >> there will be -- i think best way to summarize it is this way. the hague el confirmation will be more personal. the brennan confirmation is more of a policy discussion. was the administration flat footed in benghazi? reactive or proactive with the arab spring? you make the point about the drones. this is very controversial. there are some democrat that is don't like it, sort of ron paul, rand paul libertarians that don't like it and facing sharp policy questions on that.

the administration's policy will be when americans are wary of projecting military force overseas, the drone tactics have been largely effective. doesn't mean there won't be questions of using them going forward but i think the brennan confirmation process is about policy specific questions and hagel with friendships in the senate, i don't want to overstate it but mr. brennan has broad bipartisan respect and trust among players on capitol hill. >> a lot of voices weighing in on about and a little less than two hours from hearing from the president officially himself. good to see you both. happy new year. >> you, too. i want to look at what a chuck hagel pentagon might look like. joining me is mark kimmet. thank you for being with me. >> sure. >> it's not a surprise to you, either. but i just wanted to get your first impression. >> well, i agree with some of

the analysis of gloria borger and john king. it will be a bit of a confirmation fight but not a huge battle. i would suspect at the end of the day there's votes against him in the united states senate but i think by abe large they realize that chuck hagel is exceptionally well qualified for the job and carry on the tradition of the pred ecessors quite well. >> he talked about budgets, i think he used the word bloated. let's play it. have a look. >> defense department i think in many ways has been bloated. so i think the pentagon needs to be paired down. >> i think the pentagon needs to be pared down. usually those are fightings words for someone of your ilk. >> well, the good part about this is chuck hagel may get exactly what he wants, the

opportunity to go in and have the defense department defend the budget and then make the decisions. i think the more important thing is that as we look to this post-iraq, post-afghanistan period, are we going to have a strategy driven by resources or resources driven by the strategy? >> that's a good point. pardon me. i wanted to ask you about how your colleagues within the military feel about that, particularly as we continue to move in to a new model of warfare. the drones we just spoke of seem to be increasingly popular as not only a spy technique but an attack technique and is that something that is going to have a huge bearing on how we model the mod budgets in to the future? >> hopefully we'll have a strategy for this post- 9/11 period that's driven by the threats, by the capabilities that we're seeking and not driven by the resources allocated. we can't make the mistakes after

previous wars which is just go in to a death spiral down to a much lower defense budget. we have to accept it's a dangerous world out there. we're not going to get what we need in the way of a defense budget but we have to be very, very careful on the risks we fake and with the experience of chuck hagel is right kind of person we need at the helm of that process. >> what about other people within the military and their personal opinions of chuck hagel if they even have them at this point? because they may be looking at him in a different light. >> let's remind ourselves, this is the first private infantry soldier who's going to be one day the secretary of defense we hope. he's proven himself on the battlefield as an enlisted soldier and i think it's terrific somebody of his background and i think many of my colleagues feel the same way, great to see somebody who has once carried a rifle in combat

is leading the department of defense. >> i understand he walks around with shrapnel in his chest. >> he does, yes. >> general, good to see you. thanks so much and happy new year. >> and to you. and be sure to stay with us, as well. we have special coverage planned for the president's announcements, particularly on chuck hagel, as well. wolf blitzer will anchor the coverage starting at 12:30 p.m. a rabbi who's known chuck hagel more than two decades says he is embarrassed that critics say the former senator is anti-semitic. we'll talk to him in five minutes. and some other top stories. secretary of state hillary clinton back to work and looking terrific as she waves to the press. all of this less than a week after being out of the hospital and treetded for a blood clot that doctors found in her head. last month she suffered a concussion after a fall and

tomorrow she will be at the white house for some high level security meetings. are you ready for the next financial cliff? do you remember that sequestration deal we barely staved off and looming? the speaker of the house says it is time to just let it happen. go off the cliff and suffer the automatic cuts. john boehner said that republicans are willing to take a huge hit on what they have tried to protect, the defense budget but says that democrats have to accept the cuts to entitlement cuts or come to the table and negotiate and something else. speaker boehner says, quote, i need this job like i need a hole in my head. i think a lot of people would understand that at this point. on to other news, as well, aurora, colorado, moving theater shooting suspect james holmes in court this very moment, in fact. the first day of a preliminary hearing that could take all week.

12 people were killed and more than 50 others hurt in that attack and many of those wounded victims could be testifying during this hearing. he is facing astonishing 166 charges including murder and attempted murder and we are going to have a lot more on this case, particularly how do you defend him? huge question, huge strategies. that's coming up later. if there was a pill to help protect your eye health as you age... would you take it? well, there is. [ male announcer ] it's called ocuvite.

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[ male announcer ] when diarrhea hits, kaopectate stops it fast. powerful liquid relief speeds to the source. fast! [ male announcer ] stop the uh-oh fast with kaopectate. more now on the top story. president obama's nomination of former republican senator chuck hagel for defense secretary. administration officials say the president will make it official in about two hours and our special coverage here on cnn will begin at 12:30 eastern

time. as we mentioned, chuck hagel faced some sharp criticism from fellow republicans as well as democrats over what they say are his anti-israeli positions and also for being soft on iran. those are their accusations. rabbi ariah israeli -- i hope i pronoun pronounced that right. it's a tricky name. did i get your name right? >> almost. >> okay. all right. give me another shot at it. this is a tricky one. maybe you give it to me with the accurate pronunciation. >> it's ariah israel. >> that was easy. give me for your sense after knowing chuck hagel more than 20 years. visited your congregation. give me your personal perspectives on the senator. >> i'm looking forward to the nomination.

i have known him, i met him actually a few months before he was elected as senator from the state of nebraska. and in all our conversations, i was always impressed with his amazing knowledge, with his integrity, with his ability to speak his mind and so i think that this will be a wonderful choice for our government to have additional voice, a clear voice for security and safety for the middle east. >> so rabbi, some of his critics have said that they were not the least bit impressed with how he referred to the jewish lobby. did you not take offense with that terminology? >> not at all, not at all. i think some of the people in our community, and this is a minority of people, i think they're still licking their wounds as a result of obama's victory and, therefore, they are

getting this mud being thrown as chuck hagel's face for no reason at all. some of the things i read in the newspapers and articles are absolutely bold lies and i think that this is not going to help them at all. >> but what about the criticism that he's been soft on iran, opposed sanctions, that he alongside the president has had the opinion that it is perhaps goody ploem sy to work with iran? is that not something you think raises the hack ls of supporters of israel across this country? >> there are so many supporters of israel in this country that would like to find a way of approaching the issue of iran. in my conversations with chuck hagel, as a result of many visits to the region, i found him extremely resolute and strong in being able to create a more diplomatic and better way

of maneuvering that relationship. i like many other jews in america and many israelis, would like to see other ways of achieving a solution than to continue talking about war and military response. >> as i understand it, your synagogue comprises a more reformed congregation, some would say that's a less conservative kind of congregation. would that perspective, can you give me your feelings for how chuck hagel is viewed in israel among jews in israel? >> the members of my congregation of nebraska are all lovers and supporters of the state of israel. and so, just because we are progressive liberal movement doesn't mean that we don't worry about the security and the health of the state of israel. at the same time we are concerned about the middle east. it's not the best neighborhood

in the world to live in. i grew up in israel. i was born in israel and therefore i think that chuck hague sell a voice that can actually move an agenda, a whole different conversation that definitely needs to happen with regard to the middle east. >> well, i do appreciate your perspective and great having the nebraska perspective, as well. rabbi, thank you so much for being with us. >> okay. please tell people that there are jews are nebraska. >> all right. and happy new year to you, as well. >> to you, too. and from chuck hagel from the supporters of chuck hagel to opponents, bing west and hagel, both of them are combat vets but that is where the similarity ends. he's going to join us on the half hour on why he is opposed to chuck hagel for defense secretary.

if you got your paycheck on friday and you noticed it was a little smaller, thank the expired payroll tax holiday. guess what else is coming in 2013? higher prices for just about everything on the daily menu, the menu of life. christine romans is here to tell us not only what they are but what we can do about it. start with the grocery store. >> make a list, right? you hear that all the time. your grandmother did it. things are -- prices of things are rising. starts with corns and grains. remember the drought of last summer? also global demand. corn, corn feeds in to -- you use it to feed animals, right? use it to make cereal and snack

foods and corn syrup and to feed animals so meat prices likely going to be up 3% to 4%. pay more for the hamburger and already seeing people start to cut back on one thing. look at that sandwich. >> cut back on the side of the sandwich. >> i don't think you should eat it this year. dr. sanjay gupta would have a problem with that sandwich. >> it's true. groceries across the board more expensive. what about not everybody uses the u.s. post but mail in general, we depend on it. also, public transit. >> two things you probably can't do much about. mail prices are going up. looks like maybe -- i don't know, 4% could be the higher cost of shipping something according to cnn money and you're going to see a penny increase in the cost of a stamp. public transit in new york and chicago, talking about raising the cost of a one-time only ticket or even the monthly benefits. you can't do much about that but

it's cheaper than driving the car in and parking in some of these cities so that's the advantage. >> we have to live somewhere and so you have the option to rent, you have the option to buy. what's the story on both of those? >> so the story here, rents are rising. in december, you saw 5% year over year increase in rentals. why? it's the landlord has the upper hand here because people aren't buying, they can't buy. maybe lost their home. moving in to the rental market. right? you have rents are rising. same time that housing costs are creeping up. the price of a home is creeping up. already in a home and didn't buy it at the bubble, this is good for you. good to be in the home. as a renter waiting out the catastrop catastrophe, you're noticing the rent bills are going up. >> may want to get in to the housing market or get a loan and not always easy either. does somebody have the better edge in terms of mortgages right now? >> the edge goes the first-time home buyer with 20% down and an

impeccable credit score. the mortgage rates are unbelievable. may never see money this cheap again in our life. you have to be pretty much an impeccable borrower. if you have a mortgage right now in the 5% or 6% for a 30-year fixed, please, please refinance it. people who haven't. if you did a year ago, you can refinance again. the money is still so cheap. >> tell you no, you have a lousy credit score, take advantage and you can't? >> that's a lot of people. spend the next year repairing the credit score and that -- i mean, rates stay low and creeping up i think but staying low. >> this woman wrote the book on how to speak money. it is called "how to speak money" and we have desks very close to each other. i said would you mind putting together a segment to fix your credit score. can you do is that that? >> sure.

wednesday. >> free for lunch? >> come back in two days. >> this week, how to fix your credit score. >> it's doable, doable. >> awesome. >> this is the year to do it. this is the year to fix it. 2013 is the year of repair ian there's a good song for credit scores. we have to go. back after this. [ lisa ] my name's lisa, and chantix helped me quit.

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terms of rules? you think they should be there, wouldn't you? >> you would think they definitely should have already been there and safety advocates have been begging for these for years and thrilled the fda doing the basic things. better measures to keep animals out of fields where crops are growing because what they do in fields? poop in fields. we don't want that. better rules to get farm workers to wash their hands and the last one, little gross but i have to say it. okay? got to say it. which is, port-a-potties for the work earls because when they don't have them, what do they do? >> come on. no way, elizabeth. that's not already a regulation? >> no, no. there aren't strict rules like the rules doing here. again, you can see why safety advocates so frustrated because some of the things are so basic. and they're hoping these will be fully implemented.

we have done the segments, peanuts, spinach. they seem to go on and on. >> in fact, i was going to bring that up. call me naive but reporting about lettuce and spinach and then track it down to human issues in the field, i thought it was a blip. is this problem serious? >> apparently this is something that happens quite often. you know, every so often it will cause problems. so yes, this is a serious problem and take a look at the results. 1 in 6 americans sick. 128,000 hospitalized. 3,000 die. these are big numbers. >> wow. >> and the frustration is that much of this is avoidable. >> 3,000 die, remarkable. the advocates pushing for basic rules must be thrilled about this and guessing same time those frustrated to cost money to police that. >> they are thrilled but here's

what they're hesitant about, saying the government has to put the money in to make it happen. for example, with the port-a-potties you can say put them out there but if you don't give the money to make that happen, and you don't have inspectors making that happen, and by giving the money i don't mean they don't have to pay for -- the government doesn't have to pay for them but they have to pay for the inspectors to make sure that it happens and they're concerned that there's not going to be enough money to police this. >> ah, i think that's the next segment. the number of inspectors compared to what we need and we end up getting. elizabeth, good to see you. thank you. >> thank you. >> visit -- this is great. i always say this. cnn spnt come/empoweredpatient. elizabeth knows stuff and great tips of how to keep your food safe. and in just about 90 minutes, president obama's expected to nominate chuck hagel as a choice for defense secretary. a former secretary is adamant he

is not right for this job. we'll ask bing west why he feels that way despite others who say the opposite. they have carb steady, with carbs that digest slowly to help minimize blood sugar spikes. [ male announcer ] glucerna hunger smart. a smart way to help manage hunger and diabetes.

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he is too ambitious with scant strategic concepts for dedication to defense. that's a quote. also stinging criticism of chuck hagel by a former comrade in arms. bing west. they're both combat veterans. but west is strong in his

opinion that hagel lacks the, quote, gravitas, for the position. our special coverage with wolf blitzer will begin live at 12:30 p.m. bing west is a former asis about defense secretary for international security affairs. his new book is called "into the fire." he joins us now live. thanks so much for being with us. i would have expected perhaps some criticism but not this much stinging criticism, especially from a fellow combat veteran. when you say he doesn't have the gravitas, he's the first vietnam vet who might be secretary of defense, he was in the senate and senate foreigns affairs committee. that's not enough? >> i'm afraid not. we have had many senators who fought in vietnam.

we face with the pentagon some enormous problems. i have worked for seven secretaries of defense but right now we're trying to get our troops out of a war we didn't win at the same time the pentagon will be hit with a cascading flood of cuts and for that kind of an environment you don't need somebody who's an outsider who doesn't have the practical experience and who's makedly ambitious for the job. what i don't get about this is the deputy secretary of defense ashton carter has all the experience in the world. he's a loyal democrat. he's done a terrific job. and the undersecretary of defense michel flonroy is trusted throughout the military. the president had people loyal to him with the qualifications and gone to an outside person whose reputation is that of a maverick who makes off the cuff decisions and i think that's very bad for defense department

and for our security at this particular time in history. >> well, let me ask you on that issue of being an outsider. some say that's what's needed. i'm not so sure how outside he is but someone who's ambitious might be what you need considering the politics necessary in the defense department and the fact he's -- the president is reaching across the aisle to the republicans to supercede the choices you mentioned but have at it. >> okay. i have very little to do with politics but the notion that mr. hagel is a republican seems to be rejected by the republicans but i have no opinion about that. but in terms of qualifications, your other point about, well, he has this experience. not compared to the others who were in line right there. i mean, he has to get up to speed now on issues where he's already spoken out in rather

strange ways. i mean, he says things like, we shouldn't be involved in senseless wars. what does that mean? i mean, what person is going to say we should be involved a senseless war? so i really question whether he has the gravitas. i watched as svietnam was going down and agonizing over watching troops and budget cut and losing a war and i don't have the feeling that hagel indicates to us that he understands how grave the situation is. i mean, you look at current secretary of defense panetta and he is a loyal democrat but he was the first to say, my gosh, we are going too far in cutting defense. i think defense needs a very strong stewart, not necessarily an outsider but somebody who understands the weight of the

issues that he's been dealing with and that are going to be thrust on his plate. i think we need somebody who doesn't want to be there. okay. >> yeah. well, i think a lot of people -- i think john boehner said i need this job like a hole in the head. let's ask you about the senseless war issue. a lot of people said that iraq was a senseless war and surges were senseless. there have been those critics, as well. when we are facing the kind of cutbacks that this government absolutely must make, shouldn't that be the way to talk? if we're talking about senseless war, it's pulling the belts tighter. isn't that the kind of guy you need? >> i agree that all of us across the board, social security, medicare, medicaid, all of it has to be tightened. that's not the issue. the issue is whether you have the gravitas of your position where you've thought it through carefully and not just say i'm

against surges. the surge worked. but that's not my criticism of the man. he appears to make off the cuff decisions at a time when we desperately do not need somebody doing that. and he has to be very careful with the morale of our troops. if you come out and say, you've been fighting a senseless war, you're driving down the morale of your own troops and we can't afford to do that. and deputy secretary of defense carter and undersecretary flonroy did done a wonderful job. on balance, i believe the president for some strange reason went to a third stringer when he had first stringers available. >> i sense we will have a lot of different viewpoints, yours and others alike that we're going to hear during some confirmation hearings if in the next 80 minutes or so what we expect to bear out will and that's the suggestion for the nomination. thank you for being with us.

>> thank you. thank you. so a reminder, president obama's going to announce the nominations not only for the sec def but for the cia chief and that's coming up this afternoon. we have got the best in the business, trust me, because wolf blitzer is going to helm our coverage and gets under way at 12:30 with his excellent team, as well. another key leader in the middle east at this point is throwing his support behind the syrians and also fighting to overthrow their president. bashar al assad. wolf blitzer has an exclusive with egyptian president morsi saying he backs the calls by the syrian people for assad to step down. possibly, possibly be tried for war crimes although nuanced in that respect. says that ultimately the fate of assad must be decided by the syrians of all walks of life. >> the syrian people through their revolution and through the

movement will when the bloodshed stops move to a new stage where they will have an independent parliament an enthe government of their choosing and then they'll decide what they want to do against those who committed crimes against them. it is the syrian people who decide. >> great interview and very, very timely, as well. you can see all of it with wolf blitzer exclusive interview, that's the egyptian president morsi on "the situation room" today starting at 4:00 p.m. eastern of course here on cnn. ...and down. just use your maxperks card and get a case of x-9 paper for only 1-cent after maxperks rewards. find thousands of big deals now... ...at officemax. hi, i'm ensure clear... clear, huh? i'm not juice or fancy water. i've got nine grams of protein. that's three times more than me! [ female announcer ] ensure clear. nine grams protein. zero fat. in blueberry/pomegranate and peach.

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so if you are watching the markets last week, you know that wall street kicked off the new year in a pretty nice little way. however, we also gave you the warning it wouldn't last, perhaps. alison kosik is here with a market check. week two. give me the news. how are we doing today? >> stocks having a tough time picking up momentum today, despite, you know, 2013 getting off to a pretty good start. friday we saw the s&p 500 close at the highest level in five years s. the momentum going to stick around? investors are expecting a rocky month ahead. what will happen with the debt kreeling in a couple of months? anything like what happened during last summer's negotiations, and when, of course, the u.s. -- when the u.s.'s credit downgraded, we

could be in for the roller coaster ride for the markets again. fourth quarter corporate earnings season begins tomorrow and investors are going to be paying close attention because the fourth quarter reports wrap up the year and investors of a clearest picture of how they did and whether or not the fiscal cliff anything to do with the company's results, as well. ashleigh? >> more of the fiscal cliffs, to come, as well. >> of course. we also want to keep an eye on -- well, check out cnnmoney.com. we have constant reporting and it does change and then also things that change, the weather. i don't know if it's warm where you are. i'm sure if you're in florida it's lovely but seems as though the weather is warmer. am i crazy? don't answer that, chad. is it unusual? >> that's all -- i'll answer that one. >> safer ground. go for it. >> we will be 70 in atlanta thursday in to friday but the west taking the brunt of it.

this is a shift in the jet stream where it's cold in the west, warm in the east and will change. don't get used to it. rain and snow across the rockies in to the cascades. could see 14 inches of snow in some spots. good snow for skiers, i guess. not good to travel through it as a driver. know about this coming. there's rain coming to texas, as well. taking the rain. still getting over the drought down here to the south and gets up to the red river and some good news tuesday in to wednesday and the forecast is some of these areas, all red, four to six inches of rain across the area. that desperately needs it. could see severe weather threat, maybe a rain shower or two to maybe make a hailstone or two. other than that, i know what you want to see. raining for the big game tonight and probably not. should recalls right now. by 8:00, they calm down and a beautiful night miami, florida. >> the big game, the big game. hockey, none being played and talking to a canadian.

that's a whole other thing. >> i touched the stanley cup with the detroit red wings. i had a glove on. >> i have a new opinion of you. i have stood beside it, as well. quite an awesome -- listen. nobody who's -- it's a big deal for us hockey fans. >> we are in buffalo. >> all right. so you get it. you are in the club. hey, thank you. good to see you. >> bye. i have the flu... i took theraflu, but i still have this cough. [ male announcer ] truth is theraflu doesn't treat your cough. what? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus severe cold and flu fights your worst flu symptoms, plus that cough. [ sighs ] thanks!... [ male announcer ] you're welcome. that's the cold truth!

the man accused of unleashing horror in a colorado movie theater is in court as we speak. james holmes will hear from scores of witnesses as they recall details of last year's massive shooting. here is casey wian with more. >> reporter: ashleigh, prosecutors are expected to call up to 70 witnesses over the next several days to try to persuade a judge that there is enough evidence that james holmes should go to trial for the murder of 12 people and the attempted murder of dozens of others. 166 counts against him, in total. some of the evidence that we'll see in court today, we will see

for the first time because there has been a gag order over the prosecution and the defense. even the university of colorado where james holmes was a student before he went -- allegedly went on this shooting rampage. also in court today are expected to be family members of the victims. they have been given warnings by the prosecution of the type of testimony they would expect. here is what one had to say. >> they talked about the fact that they are going to play snipts of roughly 30 hou ll lly footage inside the theater. they talked about still photographs and autopsy reports. >> it is very clear from those filings that the defense intends to present some sort of limited mental capacity defense on the behalf of james holmes. he will not enter a plea at this

preliminary hearing. that will come down the road at an arraignment if a judge, as expected, rules he must stand trial. ashleigh? >> casey wian, thank you. we'll have a team of reporters inside the courtroom right now, in fact -- can't use blackberries in there. it's very difficult to get in and out. as soon as the news starts breaking we'll bring you the very latest. meantime we do have a closer look at how do you defend someone like this? casey said it, 166 counts, 70 witnesses just today. award-winning trial attorney darren oakley is with me. i beg your pardon. we may have to go to a quick break. when we come back in a moment. copd makes it hard to breathe,

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so, six months ago, we were all reporting this horrible crime in aurora, colorado. now james holmes is into the legal process for real. darren kevinoke, who i introduced just before we went to break, is here. start this way. we're in a preliminary hearing with 70 witnesses in a week-long. what are we trying to establish in the prelim? >> it's like a mini trial where the judge will decide whether or not there's enough evidence for the case to go forward.

onlookers are saying why is this even an issue? it's part of the process, though. civil matters, unlike that, attorneys can't take depositions. mental health issues that are really driving this case. >> you hit exactly where i want to go now. casey wian, in his reporting, has told us we'll learn a lot more details in this prelim, a lot more evidence we haven't known before. won't we also, in the very way the defense attorneys do their cross examination, won't we know what defense they're going to use? i don't think they'll go after an insanity defense at this time. >> there's no real mystery about where this case is headed. this is not a whodunit. the case will turn on the mental health issues. we talked about insanity, a

total defense where a defendant doesn't understand and appreciate the wrongfulness of their conduct, they can't be held criminally liable. with diminished capacity, it's slightly different. it's that there's still mental health issues going on, but you can be held criminally liable just for a lesser crime. so it can turn a murder into a manslaughter. >> a lot of people don't understand that, though. you have insanity, which i think some people assume right away, well, if you have some kind of mental illness, you might actually qualify for an insanity defense. you can be mental ly ill and no insane. make no mistake. what about diminished capacity, what do you have to prove -- does it help you that much? >> it's all a matter of degree. for the insanity defense to apply, somebody has got to be so mentally ill or have such a defect or disease that they just don't appreciate that what they're doing is wrong. they've completely lost touch with reality essentially. >> they can't r